FL Survival / A Survival Community
General Forum => A Little Scenario => : Wrenchbender March 18, 2014, 08:59:07 AM
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WSJ - US Risks National Blackout From Small Scale Attack (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304020104579433670284061220)
Great. Just great.... :-\
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Can't read it except for.
The U.S. could suffer a coast-to-coast blackout if saboteurs knocked out just nine of the country's 55,000 electric-transmission substations on a scorching summer day, according to a previously unreported federal analysis.
The study by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission concluded that coordinated attacks in each of the nation's three separate electric systems could cause the entire power network to collapse, people familiar...
Could you post the whole article?
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Why do they bother reporting this stuff? It's well known news.
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Can't read it except for.
The U.S. could suffer a coast-to-coast blackout if saboteurs knocked out just nine of the country's 55,000 electric-transmission substations on a scorching summer day, according to a previously unreported federal analysis.
The study by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission concluded that coordinated attacks in each of the nation's three separate electric systems could cause the entire power network to collapse, people familiar...
Could you post the whole article?
Try this one Kaji.
http://www.studentnewsdaily.com/daily-news-article/u-s-risks-national-blackout-from-small-scale-attack/
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Can't read it except for.
The U.S. could suffer a coast-to-coast blackout if saboteurs knocked out just nine of the country's 55,000 electric-transmission substations on a scorching summer day, according to a previously unreported federal analysis.
The study by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission concluded that coordinated attacks in each of the nation's three separate electric systems could cause the entire power network to collapse, people familiar...
Could you post the whole article?
Try this one Kaji.
http://www.studentnewsdaily.com/daily-news-article/u-s-risks-national-blackout-from-small-scale-attack/
Thanks. I've been slowly dropping hints and trying to make my family think about things. I got my sister to admit that if the power goes out for a long period there is no way for us to cook except for a minuscule chance of finding my bro in laws camp stove that isn't filled up and I believe in a self storage unit. Or using a grill that we have no charcoal and some very green wood for.
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Yep or they could destroy hoover dam and knock out most of the west electricity. also cause major flooding and a rebuild disater.
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Time to start buying solar panels and deep-cycle batteries...
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Solar panels are as cheap as they have ever been, so it is a good time to buy them. A good battery to buy is the 6 volt golf cart kind. They are built to charge/discharge many times. Don't skimp on the charge controller, don't buy a cheap $30 chinese one, get a Moringstar or better. And buy a pure sine wave inverter, the modified sine wave ones will run lights, but they will cause motors to run hot.
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hell,2004 the wife and i rode out 2 hurricanes in a month.were with out power or a generator for almost a month.by the time they got it turned back on we were kinda getting used to it
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hell,2004 the wife and i rode out 2 hurricanes in a month.were with out power or a generator for almost a month.by the time they got it turned back on we were kinda getting used to it
Did the same thing in 04 with Hurricane Ivan. Only two weeks but we kind of enjoyed it.
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Seems to be regular occurrence, though no actual large scale shut down of systems.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-03/miso-breach-latest-in-hackers-effort-to-reach-power-grid.html
The recent big event was Russia's penetration of US Oil and Gas companies.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/02/technology/security/russian-hackers/
The effort seemed to be not only at the grid, but the fuel/gas powering the electriciy producers. Certainly a multi pronged attack at both the grip itself and the raw material to supply it could have long reaching impact. The weakest link in US is the supply chain. Trucks, trains and pipelines stop running and the panic could be substantial, though I feel it would have to last longer than a few days to cause collapse.
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Solar panels are as cheap as they have ever been, so it is a good time to buy them. A good battery to buy is the 6 volt golf cart kind. They are built to charge/discharge many times. Don't skimp on the charge controller, don't buy a cheap $30 chinese one, get a Moringstar or better. And buy a pure sine wave inverter, the modified sine wave ones will run lights, but they will cause motors to run hot.
Good advice for those wanting a PV (Photo-Voltaic) system. I had a nice system set up that ran the ceiling fans and my ham radio station. When my wife lived out west, they lived completely off-grid. I have a cousin who has a chest freezer and his water supply completely on solar power (he lives here in Florida also). With all those success stories, I have still decided not to set up the system again (we had to take it down when we added on to the house). I have all the panels, a couple of charge controllers and inverters, and a battery monitor (a must-have), yet they will probably remain in storage. The reason? Batteries are a major weak link in the system. Even with the best of care, they have a limited life-span, and they probably won't be available after things fall apart. And before you ask - No, a PV system will not work without batteries as a buffer. Been there, done that. The power fluctuates wildly and any good quality charge controller or inverter will shut down once the input voltage gets out of spec. There has to be a battery bank in the system to act as a buffer. Batteries are there for TWO purposes - storage for night and when the sun isn't shining and when a temporary load exceeds the panel output, AND to act as a buffer to even out the power going into the inverter.
I might decide to try it again some time just for the fun of it (when the addition was built, it was built specifically for a PV system with roof mounted panels), but it would not be a major part of my prep planning. My thinking at this point is that I would rather focus on how things will work with no electricity rather than just prolong things with a very limited use of electricity until the batteries die. I have generators and fuel to give me a very short term bridge to get there (and to use power tools while there is fuel available). That's just my thinking and it may not fit your situation; however, I hope you'll consider the possibility. It's a matter of setting priorities.
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The weakest link in US is the supply chain. Trucks, trains and pipelines stop running and the panic could be substantial, though I feel it would have to last longer than a few days to cause collapse.
good point here swamp iv read a study done by the national trucker association on the same point.. they said if the supply chain was down for more than a week you would start to see great panic in the population as the stores couldnt resupply, gas stations would start to run out of gas on and on... people at the most have about 4 days of food in their pantry's not gourmet stuff but eatable and at least something so within a week panic and problems will be very noticeable....
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Agreed...fuel will be the big event. The rate of US consumption per day is staggering 18.8 Million barrels per day. Prevention of those deliveries would cause quite an issue. Govt most likely would seize control and divert fuel to necessary only. Even if delivery trucks can make it to the store, the ability of people getting to the store would be the problem, much less deliveries of medications etc.. This is all speculation of course, who knows what will happen.
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Agreed...fuel will be the big event. The rate of US consumption per day is staggering 18.8 Million barrels per day. Prevention of those deliveries would cause quite an issue. Govt most likely would seize control and divert fuel to necessary only. Even if delivery trucks can make it to the store, the ability of people getting to the store would be the problem, much less deliveries of medications etc.. This is all speculation of course, who knows what will happen.
It will start with fuel, but, WATER will turn out to be gold.
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It will start with fuel, but, WATER will turn out to be gold.
Agreed. Clean water can be difficult to procure. Especially in coastal areas since it is brackish to salt and the standard water filter systems wont remove salt. Miles of water and not a drop to drink.
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Saw on dual survivor they made a type of "still". They boiled some salt water and the steam went into a "pipe" and cooled and fresh water came out of the pipe into a "pot" at the other end. It was neat to see.
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Water will easily be the biggest killer. Most early deaths will be people drinking contaminated water, especially in urban centers. Hell look at Orlando and all those tempting lakes and ponds.... Disease will come next followed by people kept alive by modern medicine. Then food. A delivery system is required for all of this on a big scale. A quote I read somewhere, the highest level of population is directly related to the level of technology to support it.
I think most of us here will at least make it past the NASA study 2 week 1/3 population death mark. After that it becomes more situational to individual needs. Water during the summer especially will be the biggest killer and I think most of us have that handled in some way or another. I love the Big Berky series of water filters. I recommend them to anyone, even for just normal drinking water. I am thinking of getting an extra one.
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Mr. Tropheus is describing my situation perfectly. Urban area dotted with hundreds of lakes.
It's sad to say, but my survival will depend upon the population migrating or dying en masse as I hunker down and try to remain invisible.
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And cap, Ammo to keep out the masses.
Tropheus, you said a NASA study said 2 weeks ? Interesting info, Can you make a thread on that with links? Or send them to me.
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I don't have link anymore. It was the report that basically got me thinking about prepping. Maybe four years ago NASA did a study mostly concentrating on a solar flare hit basically EMPing the entire East coast. If just the east coast states were hit, due to the heavy population concentration a third of the population would be dead within two weeks. The rest of the country would simply be unable to ship in that much food, water, and medical supplies in from the outside, even with the lessons FEMA learned from Katrina. Oddly enough I remember it saying FL would be slightly better off depending on when due to a large number of households being prepared for hurricanes and we have a large number of CERT personnel but I think the heat and water situation would ultimately peg us down with everyone else. We got this report in our email a while back and I am not sure if it was a widespread report put out to the public at large.
It sounds like a lot but when you think about it, while the outskirts and rural areas are fairly heavily populated compared to the rest of the country, the bigger cities are even worse. I have had friends in my unit from New York and they apparently don't even have normal grocery stores like we do inside the city. They have little places called bodagas that they buy a day or two's worth of food, easily carried back to their hive- I mean apartment building. Without pressure those apartment buildings will be out of water in a day or two. If it happens in the middle of winter or summer, where are the hive dwellers going to go? Not to mention exposure in the buildings if we have another winter like last year. So I think the old adage that cities are a death trap still holds very true and also heavily influenced the 1/3 death rate thing. Any sub-urban area will have to organize quickly in order to prevent being over run by refugees. I don't think bugging out and joining the masses is a real viable strategy for those of us in Central Florida, we are just too concentrated despite wide tracts of land. Working together as small neighborhood communities or small towns and cutting access into said communities will be the only real survivable strategy long term.
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thanks tropheus for your post .. first I've heard of a nasa study. and imo you are right in some ways. I lived up,north and there is plenty of snow to melt for water. and lil food
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you can make a solar still that will separate salt from water making distilled water... but distilled water is only for an extream emergency it shouldn't be consumed all the time not good to the digestive system among other things....
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Here are snippets of part of the report I read. This isn't the original and its paraphrased. I actually wanted a copy for fiction I am writing but cant find it anywhere. Mostly it is a warning of the increasing solar activity, which thankfully is now on the decline.
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For one thing, the U.S. national grid system is vulnerable in its own right.
But with an electromagnetic pulse, or EMP, generated from the sun’s flares – some of which can be up to 10 times the size of the Earth – the unprotected grid, including transformers, electrical components and automated control systems that everyone takes for granted in their everyday lives, could either be severely damaged or fried, taking months if not years to replace.
NASA estimates that a direct hit to Earth from one of these enormous flares would have a catastrophic impact on the nation’s critical infrastructures over a very wide geographical area.
In the first year alone, NASA estimates, such a disaster could cost just the U.S. upwards of $2 trillion. It also would take from four to 10 years to recover – if that even would be possible – and affect the lives of some 160 million people, threatening starvation and death.
Some EMP experts say that such a catastrophic event could wipe out America’s urban centers, due to their total dependency on critical infrastructures for electricity, communications, food and water delivery, oil and gas, transportation, automated banking and financial institutions and even emergency services.
The experts say grocery stores, for example, would have their shelves cleared in a matter of hours due to the panic that would sweep the population. Normally, grocery stores carry a maximum of three days of products before being restocked. However, restocking would come to a halt due to the inability of trucks to function, with fueling stations unable to pump the fuel needed to run the vehicles.
Automated control devices that regulate the flow of oil and natural gas through the hundreds of thousands of miles of pipelines that crisscross the nation would be tripped, causing geographically widespread secondary fires and explosions.
Such an event would not just occur out in a remote field. Fires and explosions also could occur under streets and even into people’s houses.
The inability of fire and medical emergency services to respond would result in further disastrous consequences for the population.
Because automated systems ensure fresh water delivery, all filtering and sewage systems in the urban setting would face the high prospect shutting down, leading to disease such as cholera and dysentery. In addition, there would be little likelihood of medical attention because the hospitals and first responders’ emergency equipment which rely on electronics and communications equipment may no longer function.
Hospitals would have backup generators. However, if the generators have electrical starters, they might not function at all. Others may run on gasoline or diesel and only function for as long as there is fuel, which would need to be trucked in by vehicles with automated starters.
NASA estimates that as many as 350 of the large, customized transformers, which maintain a power supply across the nation and are only produced abroad, would be destroyed.
Because they are expensive – some costing as much as $20 million a copy – utilities don’t keep spares on hand. They could take years to replace, especially if a number of technologically dependent countries’ transformers are affected by a direct solar flare impact."
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Interesting Tropheus.
I would like a minor solar flare to nail some part of the world so all predictions about one would acttually happen. And it would help others get ready for a big one. There is so much talk year after year and nothing. And I will look into the distilled water thing Bum I had not heard of that..
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Here are some pertinent yet semi-scary articles I just read. One is on Drudge right now.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/07/23/how-a-solar-storm-nearly-destroyed-life-as-we-know-it-two-years-ago/
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/23jul_superstorm/
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this article Is interesting....
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/signs-point-coming-emp-attack-upon-united-states/
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found this article today and its on the point exactly what wee talking about here, check it out:
http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/the-big-blackout-why-im-going-low-tech-to-prep-for-an-emp-07302014
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I also go for the low tech approach. I've tried using solar (PV system), but after using it for years, it became obvious that it is not a long-term solution. Such a system requires battery replacement ever few years, no matter what. If replacement batteries are available, then it's a pretty safe bet that utility power is too. Now, there is certainly nothing wrong with having a nice PV system. It will make the transition smoother. However, if you're betting on that for the long term - or any high tech system for the long term - then you may be making a very serious mistake. My technological "bridge" is just a generator. I'll use fuel while I have it, and then that's the end of it. I'm prepared for the day the generator stops running as well as the day the utility power stops.
Keep in mind that life without electricity is really not that big a deal - IF YOU'RE PREPARED FOR IT. We (America in the 21st Century) are not. Much of the world still exists without electricity. My father had no electricity on the farm where he grew up. They only got it after he returned home from college. They did quite well because they were set up for it; they adapted to the circumstances; their world was built around living without electricity. What is going to kill people is the fact that, in order to survive, they must shift from total dependence on electricity for everything, to a world where none is available - and that has to happen in a matter of days. Those who have no "bridge" system to get them from here to there will simply not survive. It will be difficult for everyone. For most of those those in urban areas, it will be impossible.
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Properly maintained batteries and the proper type, can last 5 or more years. You can also buy dry batteries, with the acid kept separately in a glass jug. This is the ultimate way to store spare batteries.
I have low tech stuff too, as an EMP could knock out charge controllers and inverters of a solar power system. But I'm going to keep using solar power for as long as possible.
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Do you have a source for dry batteries where the acid is added when you're ready to use it? I know that tractor batteries used to be sold that way, but from what I've seen, they haven't been sold that way for decades. Something about shipping regulations made it impractical, if I recall correctly.
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There is a battery only place that caters to fleet trucks that has told me they can order them that way, but I haven't spent the cash yet
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Do you know if they have the deep cycle batteries that way, or just truck batteries? My guess is that I'll just need to hunt around and see if I can stumble across a place that sells them that way. Since I've already got all the panels, inverter, charge controller, and monitor, I suppose I ought to go ahead and get it set up. I've even got a port through the roof made just for the wire from the roof-mount panels.
I wish my "stuff to do" list wasn't so long already.
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Not sure about deep cycle. I know I use one of our heavy duty truck batteries that comes from there with my trolling motor and is runs it as long and as well as a walmart "deep cycle" battery did.
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Sealed deep cycle battery should last 5-10 yrs depending on usage, climate etc..
There was a good discussion on a solar forum a few years ago.
http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?10643-Best-way-to-store-unused-batteries (http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?10643-Best-way-to-store-unused-batteries)
Basically, there are a huge number of factors involved.
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I also go for the low tech approach. I've tried using solar (PV system), but after using it for years, it became obvious that it is not a long-term solution. Such a system requires battery replacement ever few years, no matter what. If replacement batteries are available, then it's a pretty safe bet that utility power is too. Now, there is certainly nothing wrong with having a nice PV system. It will make the transition smoother. However, if you're betting on that for the long term - or any high tech system for the long term - then you may be making a very serious mistake. My technological "bridge" is just a generator. I'll use fuel while I have it, and then that's the end of it. I'm prepared for the day the generator stops running as well as the day the utility power stops.
Keep in mind that life without electricity is really not that big a deal - IF YOU'RE PREPARED FOR IT. We (America in the 21st Century) are not. Much of the world still exists without electricity. My father had no electricity on the farm where he grew up. They only got it after he returned home from college. They did quite well because they were set up for it; they adapted to the circumstances; their world was built around living without electricity. What is going to kill people is the fact that, in order to survive, they must shift from total dependence on electricity for everything, to a world where none is available - and that has to happen in a matter of days. Those who have no "bridge" system to get them from here to there will simply not survive. It will be difficult for everyone. For most of those those in urban areas, it will be impossible.
Two words. WOOD GASIFIER (http://www.build-a-gasifier.com)
While it is certainly possible to live without electricity, it does help...
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While the grid might be repaired within in hours and days for most, as many as 10 million could face
prolonged life without electricity. It could be literally months – and possibly even years – before the power is restored. Are you even remotely prepared for that kind of event? The government is admittedly NOT prepared and has no way to feasibly take care of that many people during a mass disruption event:...........
December 17 2014- http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/secret-homeland-report-warns-solar-storm-leave-100-million-without-power-running-time-prepare/
Hmmmm still waiting for something... ;)
It would be a tough situation, made worse with our current American Government administration...
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While the grid might be repaired within in hours and days for most, as many as 10 million could face electricity. It could be literally months – and possibly even years – before the power is restored.
December 17 2014- http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/secret-homeland-report-warns-solar-storm-leave-100-million-without-power-running-time-prepare/
When they say "could be literally months - and possibly years..." they are being wildly optimistic. That might be true if you're just talking about making repairs - when everything else continues uninterrupted. This is a case where the "tools" needed to do the repairs are the same "tools" that need to be repaired. Our civilization has reached the state of complexity where a major one (we could probably survive a minor one) would literally be a civilization-killer. We're talking a new Dark Age that spans generations. That is why I believe it is extremely important that people assemble libraries of the books containing the information that would be needed to eventually restore some level of civilization. Not all of those private libraries will survive, but some will. That will make all the difference.
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Greetings all.
I once saw a photo of a generator a man converted to run on hydrogen. He ran it with hydrogen produced by water electrolysis. How he got the DC for electrolysis wasn't explained, however a PV panel could be used (or electric windmill etc). No batteries required (pun).
The ancient Persians produced the first DC with "vitriol" poured into metal containers. Of course you'd need a renewable source of acid (vitriol).
Perhaps the best source of electricity is steam power - which would make the generator unnecessary. However low tech boilers are not easy to build and can be deadly if they get their feelings hurt.
In the 1930s there was an astounding steam powered automobile that ran at 60mph and took 90 seconds to get up steam. This large heavy vehicle was driven by what looked like two mufflers under the floor (one for each wheel) and appear very low tech.
The secret was that the car used a kerosene fired flash boiler with a coil inside an insulated tank under the hood. Flash boilers are less prone to hurt feelings (oooh I'm on a pun roll today). However kerosene is required, but hydrogen could probably be used.
Wood dust (as volatile as gasoline) could be used but that wouldn't be low tech.
If you put an oxyacetylene flame to a piece of plaster of paris it makes a brilliant light.
This is the basis of the "limelight" which aims a mix of hydrogen and oxygen flame onto a small piece of slaked lime.
The first limelight (Drummond Light) was a spotlight for surveying that could cast shadows at a range of 13 miles.
A blackout would have one positive side - it would finally eradicate the braineating fungus known as "TV". That would be a massive boon to the human race.
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you can make a solar still that will separate salt from water making distilled water... but distilled water is only for an extream emergency it shouldn't be consumed all the time not good to the digestive system among other things....
May I ask why distilled water isn't good for the digestive system?
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There are tons of essential minerals and stuff that water has in micro amounts. I have understood that distilled water doesn't have these and therefore is not as good as natural water. Maybe this is why?
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In my crazed youth I went Jeremiah Johnson for a time and squatted in some forest land.
I built a little cabin and fixed some scrounged gutter to the roof. I then piped it to a 3x7 hole I dug and lined with some heavy bisqueen, with a plywood cover over it. A good downpour would fill it. I didn't wash much and smelled like Bigfoot's granny, but I always had drinking water. It tasted good and never gave me the runs.
Didn't even need a gun - all I had to do was walk around and stunned squirrels would drop from the trees.
In Bermuda cisterns for roof runoff are a regular fixture.
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There are tons of essential minerals and stuff that water has in micro amounts. I have understood that distilled water doesn't have these and therefore is not as good as natural water. Maybe this is why?
Thanks - a pinch from a cattle licking block would remedy that. Darn things weigh 50lbs but are cheap and last forever.
Demineralized water won't conduct electricity - so you couldn't use it for electrolysis.
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In Bermuda cisterns for roof runoff are a regular fixture.
Cisterns are greatly under-appreciated. The fort in St. Augustine was supplied by water from a cistern. There is a restored home at Blue Springs State Park in Orange City that has a cistern on a tower that collects water from the roof of the two story house, and provides pressurized water. I have a friend who was a missionary in Central America years ago - the natives there would keep minnows in the cistern to keep the bugs out (I think we can come up with a better plan than that...).
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In Bermuda cisterns for roof runoff are a regular fixture.
Cisterns are greatly under-appreciated. The fort in St. Augustine was supplied by water from a cistern. There is a restored home at Blue Springs State Park in Orange City that has a cistern on a tower that collects water from the roof of the two story house, and provides pressurized water. I have a friend who was a missionary in Central America years ago - the natives there would keep minnows in the cistern to keep the bugs out (I think we can come up with a better plan than that...).
Thanks Stephen.
I have a fondness for ShelterLogic canopies and keep my beloved cowboy cadillac under one.
Over the years I have learned that if I don't take care setting them up, the canopies will accumulate an ENORMOUS amount of rainwater in great bulging bellies sufficient to break the steel support frame.
A large tarp spread on level ground, with the edges staked up say a foot, would catch hundreds of gallons of rainwater.
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I think artesian wells are soooo under rated too. Even if it is sulfur water, you can cure that by letting it..............well, cure.
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Artesian wells - I guess I'm one of those who under-rates them. Given the choice between manually pumping good tasting water or having nasty sulfur water that ruins any plumbing that it runs through, I'll take the hand pumped good water any day. I suppose there are some places in the world where artesian wells produce good water, but I've never seen it - especially here in Florida.
Another problem with artesian wells is that they are usually located in poor soil and very low-lying areas.
It's a choice though - I'd rather pump my own good water. Interesting topic - thanks for bringing it up.
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I grew up on sulfur water, so it doesn't bother me from the tap. But if you fill a jug and let it sit for two days it cures and has no sulfur taste at all.
Further, there are some artesian wells that come out tasting fine. ( not as common as sulfur for sure )
But............. shtf I figure I will have so many things to occupy my time that having water from the tap with no effort from me is a win.
The well in my extreme survival plan is huge, and has a tap right by the well head that is basically a 2 1/2 inch pvc valve you just open and fill up your bucket.
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I suppose that's an excellent example of why there is no "single best survival plan". Everyone has different experiences, difference opportunities, and different resources. Thank you for passing along that information. I suppose I should have known that sulfur would dissipate after sitting a while - we have mild sulfur in our water, and now that you mention it, I realize that it does go away after a while. That's what I love about forums like this - thank you!
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I placed a plastic newspaper bag over a small tree branch with about 10 leaves on it. I checked it daily and after 3 days it had nearly a cup of pure water in it. That was the point where the leaves died - all plants give off moisture.
Place a plastic garbage bag over a bush and tie it at the base. Before the bush dies quite a bit of water will accumulate.
Wouldn't try it with a cactus though.
In pioneer Florida many people got their regular water supply from sinkholes - like Gregory Peck in The Yearling. Sinkholes are fed by underground springs - unlimited clean water.
My well has a 6" casing. Before I dropped pipe in it I rigged a bucket-thing and used it to pull up a half gallon at a time - 5 gallons in about 4 minutes. I would make that available to others on condition that they not steal the bucket or rope and not drink from the bucket. Big sign with those rules and a big scary skull and crossbones.
Right above the hang-up sign that says "Food for work - approach house slowly with hands raised yelling "I'm not armed", stop, wait for instructions".
Help stamp out illiteracy.
Rivers like the Suwannee are brown water, but if you dive down about 10 feet the water makes Leyden crystal look cloudy. Open your water jug, fill, close it, resurface. Watch out for gators and mocs.
They make good eating (I hear).
What restaurant offers good drink, meat, and a bath?
If all I could find is a pond or canal, I would dig a hole near it and let it fill. This would filter a lot of the gunk out and not expose me on the bank. I would boil the water then filter it through some cloth. May not be the best but it would be safe.
Water is everywhere.
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Yuck sulfur water is nasty - but after drinking it a while you don't notice.
Much like boiling down salt at the beach, I imagine boiling down sulfur water would yield sulfur. I have never tried it so I can't say for sure.
The Confederate army got most of its sulfur from mines, but the majority of their nitrates came from nightsoil. A reminder of this can be found in old neighborhoods with an alley between yards in the back. At night wagons would go along that alley picking up nightsoil from outhouses, which was then processed for nitrates.
Apologies for topic wander.
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Nobody mentions salt, but it's as critical as food and water, especially in a retro-culture for salting meat. That 5 pounds of Morton won't last long.
Fun would be a "salt party" where you find a camping beach (no highrises packed with fussy yankees) and party while seeing how much salt you can boil down from seawater.
Take some surfcasting rods and bag a bonita or wahoo.
Boil down salt, salt fish - very profitable campout.
"Rub salt in the wound" comes from the Roman army, where the usual treatment for wounds was to pack them with salt (officers got honey - much better no sting).
My wander is getting worse - apologies.
Fun would be? not only am I starting to look like Yoda I even talk like him - apologies again
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My wandering is bordering on the obscene so I'll open another Scenario for my blabbering.
Wandering will be permissible if permitted.
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I think artesian wells are soooo under rated too. Even if it is sulfur water, you can cure that by letting it..............well, cure.
I did some research and learned that the rotten egg smell comes from sulfur eating bacteria - seems they fart hydrogen sulfide gas - in the soil.
The dissolved gas is liberated when the water is exposed to atmosphere. Once the gas is dispersed there is no odor or taste. I remember that cattle trough water had no odor.
That means soil with sulfur odor contains sulfur, which could be extracted by boiling soil. This would be a valuable trade item.
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Another thing that just occurred to me is that the springs in Central and North Florida are almost always good clean water. There are two large springs (both state parks) within a few miles of me, and both have odor-free, sweet water flowing.
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Another thing that just occurred to me is that the springs in Central and North Florida are almost always good clean water. There are two large springs (both state parks) within a few miles of me, and both have odor-free, sweet water flowing.
Purest water you can find. Every sinkhole with water is where the surface has fallen into one of the underground channels that feed springs. The water is a constant 72 degrees regardless of air temperature. A spring is a sinkhole at low enough elevation for the water to flow out of the spring.
Springs are few compared to sinkholes, which are numerous. These will have organic pollution from leaves and such that fall in the water, but if that water is hauled out and dumped the water is pure and unlimited. You can haul a thousand gallons from one and the channel beneath refills it.
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On US-41 is a place called Jerome Sink. In the 1920's and 30's, my dad and his brothers would walk there to go swimming. There's a steep path down to the bottom, and there is a long-abandoned concrete pad that used to have a pump on it. A few yards away is a small cave (just a fancy sink hole, really) that my brothers and I would have fun climbing down into. The water in Jerome Sink is just as clear and clean as you can possibly imagine.
I won't give any further details on its location since it is on private property and isn't marked in any way. If you didn't know it was there, it's just a clump of trees in a corn field. It's just one of the many local excellent water sources if you know your area.
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They are quite common. I know of several in my area. I once bought a piece of land and while inspecting it found a cave with a pool in it.
While exploring the nearby woods I found a sinkhole with water. I probably could have found even more.
One of them could supply drinking water for a town.
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A national black out, from most things. Many people would be caught off guard. But water is a issue, for many. In my AO, home base. There's not much. A creek a short ways off. But its mostlyresidence ing, an in summer it gets low. Wouldn't want to walk past lets see 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 possible places, an the side rd has, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 by its self past that lone creek is maybe. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 places I think. An my short side rd has me an 7 others places, then north ward is 3 places an 1 open.
Quite a few folks. An I know, for sure 6 minus me has something to shoot. One has a guarantee 410, 1a pistol, 1a 22cal, one a 22,revolver, 1a pistol unk, 1a hunting rifle. An 2 possible residence may have something. Some may have more. But water is a issue with these residents. Not many pools either. Over 20 folks, an not many options.
An I can't run away. This IS my place. I would take a huge loss, in many ways. I might have a limited back up. But I need some things personally fixed.
Some suggestions? An how would you do a cistern here, an keep things out?
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First get a couple plastic 50 gal drums and keep them filled.
Put gutter on your roof with a means of switching it to fill your bathtub.
Dig a 6x6 hole, line it with PT plywood and heavy mil bisqueen, make a sturdy plywood hatch to cover it.
Buy a cheapo Sears pool and keep it filled whether you swim in it or not - in fact keep it covered with a tarp.
Dig a shallow well that fills with groundwater, especially in south Fla, but if you boil it and strain the junk out it's potable.
Let the neighbors who did nothing dig the well in return for a water ration.
Don't worry about the birdcrap on the roof - everyday it gets baked by the sterilizing rays of a star.
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A national black out, from most things. Many people would be caught off guard. But water is a issue, for many. In my AO, home base. There's not much. A creek a short ways off. But its mostlyresidence ing, an in summer it gets low. Wouldn't want to walk past lets see 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 possible places, an the side rd has, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 by its self past that lone creek is maybe. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 places I think. An my short side rd has me an 7 others places, then north ward is 3 places an 1 open.
Quite a few folks. An I know, for sure 6 minus me has something to shoot. One has a guarantee 410, 1a pistol, 1a 22cal, one a 22,revolver, 1a pistol unk, 1a hunting rifle. An 2 possible residence may have something. Some may have more. But water is a issue with these residents. Not many pools either. Over 20 folks, an not many options.
An I can't run away. This IS my place. I would take a huge loss, in many ways. I might have a limited back up. But I need some things personally fixed.
Some suggestions? An how would you do a cistern here, an keep things out?
Add some bows and arrows to your arsenal.
My personal bow is a Bear Magnum that will kill a grizzly - but I practice with cheapo 30lb Scout bows. I keep hi-tech fancy schmantz arrows for the Bear, but bought a raft of cheap target arrows and put cheap broadheads on for practice. Deadly at short range.
Arrows are easy to reload. Pull out - wipe off.
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IBBBYC
(Instant Bargain Basement Back Yard Cistern)
cost $118
http://www.sears.com/intex-12ft-x-30in-round-frame-pool-package/p-05234021000P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6
Anyone in an urban or suburban area should have one of these.
Set it up and keep it filled. They aren't very durable but are cheap enough to replace every couple years. I would put the new one inside the old one. Holds hundreds of gallons.
The solar blocking cover would be worth the cost. Water exposed to sunlight grows algae. Otherwise cover the whole thing with a tarp to keep bugs and birdpoop out.
Boil ANY drinking water in a PA environment, so some green water wouldn't be a problem.
When it starts running low divert your roof runoff to fill it.
>>Easy way to collect roof runoff; take a 5gal bucket and install a hose bib a few inches above the bottom - remove the gutter downspout and sit the bucket on a stepladder below the opening - connect a garden hose to the bibb and take it to wherever you need a fill up - it will fill any container lower than the bucket<<
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I've also seen some nice diverter designs that allow the first few gallons washed off the roof to run off onto the ground before a tipping valve diverts the rest of the water into the cistern. That works to wash the roof and gutter off with the first part of the rain before it starts storing it in the cistern.
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The easiest way is to just let it wash out before putting the bucket up.
When not being used it makes a handy countertop water dispenser.
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Map: Where You Don’t Want to Be When It Hits the Fan (http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/map-where-you-dont-want-to-be-when-it-hits-the-fan_09052013)
"Recent U.S. census data indicates that out of the 3000 counties in the United States, fully 50% of the population lives in just 146."
Crap.
I'm stuck in Brevard County. Unless I want to head TOWARDS MIAMI then Osceola County is my only real choice. And that's surrounded. :-[
Well, the wife keeps talking about retiring in Colorado...
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That's a very interesting map. I will spend hours pondering what it says. It doesn't tell all the story as some places are very rural in one part of the county while being very urban in another.
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That's a very interesting map. I will spend hours pondering what it says. It doesn't tell all the story as some places are very rural in one part of the county while being very urban in another.
Here's another map that should be required study - http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html
It shows the racial make-up of America in extreme detail. By that, I mean that every single person in the 2010 census is marked by a single dot, color coded by race. Use the map to zoom down to the local level and see who surrounds you. We've already seen how the "progressives" under Obama have been using race to divide the nation. When trouble turns to chaos, history has shown that people will determine "us" or "them" based on race. There's no judgment of "good" or "bad" involved here - only an objective observation that is ignored at your own peril.
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That's a very interesting map. I will spend hours pondering what it says. It doesn't tell all the story as some places are very rural in one part of the county while being very urban in another.
To me it's saying I'm trapped in an overpopulated county and that I-95 will be a parking lot when TSHTF. FL-192 is a more viable route that I've used previously during hurricane evacuations. But that feeds right into the mess that's Kissimmee.
I really need to work my evac routes more completely...
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That's a very interesting map. I will spend hours pondering what it says. It doesn't tell all the story as some places are very rural in one part of the county while being very urban in another.
To me it's saying I'm trapped in an overpopulated county and that I-95 will be a parking lot when TSHTF. FL-192 is a more viable route that I've used previously during hurricane evacuations. But that feeds right into the mess that's Kissimmee.
I really need to work my evac routes more completely...
The way that the whole Orlando area was laid out makes bug-out plans VERY difficult for anyone stuck there. It went from a sleepy citrus town to a giant people magnet in just a couple of years. Transportation was designed to move a lot of people efficiently through just a few VERY confined corridors. When all is well, things actually run fairly smoothly considering all the people moving through there. When things go wrong - like when then there is any sort of glitch in the traffic flow or just normal rush hour - it becomes a big long parking lot with no escape. I have the misfortune of having to go through there a few times each year, but I avoid it whenever possible.
If you're stuck living there, then all you can do is try and make the best of a bad situation. There is no reasonable solution, I'm sad to say.
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I'm mostly surprised at the Hispanic/Other numbers on that map...
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Guess I'll post this Here!
Black out! Its hot, it flipping Cold as icebergs:
Winter: seal off the window to a smaller bedroom, some extra blankets, pillows, a towel by the bottom of a Door, maybe hang some sort of blankets on a couple walls.
OKAY
But HOT! Is HOT! Then in Florida BUGS X10000000!........
Inside to keep cool idnk sleep in a shallow bath?
Then add in the EVER popular HUMIDITY! Well the house could get mold? Go outside you say? What of the Dangerous Zombie Apocalypse Hoard! And the BUGS that could give you idnk yellow Fever, mosquito bite born illnesses, allergic reactions, extra Ticks.... I have no helping thought on this! Do you?
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White folks have lived in Florida since the 1600's and A/C didn't come along until around 1950 or thereabouts. It didn't come to our home till around 1971. I don't remember us kids or my parents being particularly uncomfortable. I think it has a lot to do with just becoming acclimated and a little to do with adjusting our lives to deal with heat and humidity...
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White folks have lived in Florida since the 1600's and A/C didn't come along until around 1950 or thereabouts. It didn't come to our home till around 1971. I don't remember us kids or my parents being particularly uncomfortable. I think it has a lot to do with just becoming acclimated and a little to do with adjusting our lives to deal with heat and humidity...
We got air conditioning in the late 1960's living down in South Florida, but only because my dad worked shifts and couldn't sleep with us kids making a racket. At least my parents' bedroom was air conditioned. It was years later before we moved to a house that had central A/C. No air conditioning in school, of course.
All that is to say that I was amazed at how quickly I became accustomed to life in Florida in the summer without electricity after the hurricanes came through here a few years ago. A couple weeks without power teaches you some lessons very quickly - and the body grows accustomed to the heat if you learn how to deal with it. Having the capability of pumping water without electricity has a lot to do with it.
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In other words......We will learn to suck it up...or die.
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That's a very interesting map. I will spend hours pondering what it says. It doesn't tell all the story as some places are very rural in one part of the county while being very urban in another.
To me it's saying I'm trapped in an overpopulated county and that I-95 will be a parking lot when TSHTF. FL-192 is a more viable route that I've used previously during hurricane evacuations. But that feeds right into the mess that's Kissimmee.
I really need to work my evac routes more completely...
The way that the whole Orlando area was laid out makes bug-out plans VERY difficult for anyone stuck there. It went from a sleepy citrus town to a giant people magnet in just a couple of years. Transportation was designed to move a lot of people efficiently through just a few VERY confined corridors. When all is well, things actually run fairly smoothly considering all the people moving through there. When things go wrong - like when then there is any sort of glitch in the traffic flow or just normal rush hour - it becomes a big long parking lot with no escape. I have the misfortune of having to go through there a few times each year, but I avoid it whenever possible.
If you're stuck living there, then all you can do is try and make the best of a bad situation. There is no reasonable solution, I'm sad to say.
I guess that I have to redouble my bug-in preps.
But I think that I have to decide under which circumstances I need to bug-out, and do it BEFORE the sheeple start stampeding...
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I guess that I have to redouble my bug-in preps.
But I think that I have to decide under which circumstances I need to bug-out, and do it BEFORE the sheeple start stampeding...
That pretty well sums it up.
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Yall miss my point of MOLD?
If mold builds in a building. The young, elders, breathing issue types, and ill or injured could have issues.
I know of a bathroom that has air, "heat/ac", a sky light, the shower I think causes "steam", but should be okay. And needs the walls wiped once in a while due to a substance like mold on the walls.
The Heat and humidity I think could cause some issues inside without proper regulated temperatures. And air flow in say a emp event or something. Yes humanoids can and have adapted and overcame shitloads, but this is a new era. Humanity is more "tech savvy an hungry." Many have forgotten about older ways, farming, hard times long past, gardening, canning, yes- saving, survival, prepping, homesteading.
Even today with Snowmegedon up north slamming few states. Some stores shelves are bare, and many are panicked. And it could be bad only a week. HOW you say, I know? I just got stuck in Kentucky tonight! 40 miles roughly South they closed interstate travel for the Night. Most every store and restaurant where im at are Closed, including Gas stations. Without a stay in place order, or warnings. A trucker at a stop said first tonight the state is closing roads for the plows and salt trucks. Up ahead south bounds Closed today. No radio station alert! Travelers are in a predicament here imo, and most are slightly acting out of line panic shopping, as this snow and winter COMES EVERY YEAR!!. WAKE THE BEEEEP UP!!! Get some crap ahead of time. And grow some courage or order a shot of some. Just like in Florida with. Hurricane Season!