FL Survival / A Survival Community
Survivalist's Resources & Preparedness => Urban Survival => : RjSteed August 31, 2011, 02:07:15 PM
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Obviously if you have somewhere to go, this is a no brainer.... Duh!.....
However there are those who speak about Bugging Out, and they really have no plan... While it's always good to have an idea of what you want to do. You also need to realize.
If you do not have a place to go, there is no need to Bug Out...
Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing the idea or those who have stated it. When I first started hard in Prepping, I had led myself to believe that I would be able to stay out in the wilderness and survive... I wanted to learn All I could about eating grass, and berries... But let me tell you, when you are working 40 hours a week, like most of us who are normal and have lived a little bit of life (Age). You soon start to realize.. ITs a pipe dream... I know, some are saying, stop raining on my parade (just like I did...)
You could live like a Cave Man did, sure... But living the life you have to this point, you'll probably kill yourself within a week. As you will find that having nothing, and walking around beating bitches on the head is no fun in the long run...
You Could live like they did in midevil times... But you will find, that without all of your tweeter friends there to help support your fort. You wont last long either... Cause King Arthur is going to come kick your ass and make you his personal toe jam cleaner.
You could live like indians, pack up your wigwam and heard your four person family accross the swamps and praries of Florida and migrate with the animals. But makeing several trips back and forth to move gear will wear your fat lazy ass out quickly...
Now, Im not saying its impossible to live off the land... Many people in history have done it successfully... However, they usually had the assistance of a lot of people to make a commuinty last...
Not Bugging out (those with a place to go already), fulfills quite a few needs to begin with and offers you the space to set yourself up for short if not long term...
1. Water - Stores you have already done/ When it rains, you have free water off your roof
2. Navigation - You generally know the lay out of your area
3. Tools - Uless you do not do your own work around your house
4. Shelter - You have a Big house
5. Fire - Save News papers/ Firewood/ Furniture
6. Food - Should be storing already/ Amnimals around your home
7. Medical - Should have something going...
8. Signal - Small radios to listen/ Something to Transmit would be smart
9. Morale - You already have things you like to do at home Im sure...
While this post may not be all inclusive of my thoughts, I think it should at least make some think about it....
Just trying to get some to stop thinking that they HAVE to Bug Out, just because they figure they are a prepper all of the sudden... Start looking at what you can do where you are.... Think of how you make it work on the cheap...
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I'm going no where. If it comes to it I will die defending my place and family. They know it and will do the same.
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Bugging out has always been on my mind to! We have been prepping for quite some time now but I raised a question just last week. What if Marshal Law is declared and they force you physically to go with the other sheeplike?
I myself have always thought that it would not come to this but seeing how things are going I am really starting to wonder. We have enough staple to sustain us for an extended period of time as well as protection but face the facts, We cannot stop all of them. :o
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I am going to add another question if you don't mind.
For those thinking they may have to bug out what/how are you going to take everything that you have stored? I have worked too hard buying/making all this stuff up to just leave it for the bums! Not to mention the tools I have accumulated through the years that would help put things back together post PAW. Ok, my husband has a few tools too. :P
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That is the same thing that is on my mind! Bugging out would be virtually impossible with all the supplies we have. I guess bugging in and taking my chances is our only alternative.
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I am in the process of reading a book now, "Into the Wild" by Jon Krakauer. It's a good book. I highly recommend it. Anyway, in chapter eight it talks about a man named Gene Rosellini. He had money, and I guess a little too much time on his hands. He decided to prove that modern humans could live in the wilderness, living off the land, just like our distant ancestors did. Here's a short excerpt:
“He became convinced that humans had devolved into progressively inferior
beings,” McKinney explains, “and it was his goal to return to a natural state. He
was forever experimenting with different eras—Roman times, the Iron Age, the
Bronze Age. By the end his lifestyle had elements of the Neolithic.”
He dined on roots, berries, and seaweed, hunted game with spears and
snares, dressed in rags, endured the bitter winters. He seemed to relish the
hardship. His home above Hippie Cove was a windowless hovel, which he built
without benefit of saw or ax: “He’d spend days,” says McKinney, “grinding his
way through a log with a sharp stone.”
As if merely subsisting according to his self-imposed rules weren’t strenuous
enough, Rosellini also exercised compulsively whenever he wasn’t occupied with
foraging. He filled his days with calisthenics, weight lifting, and running, often
with a loadof rocks on his back. During one apparently typical summer he reported
covering an average of eighteen miles daily.
Rosellini’s “experiment” stretched on for more than a decade, but eventually
he felt the question that inspired it had been answered. In a letter to a friend he
wrote,
I began my adult life with the hypothesis that it would be possible to
become a Stone Age native. For over 30 years, I programmed and conditioned
myself to this end. In the last 10 of it, I would say I realistically experienced the
physical, mental, and emotional reality of the Stone Age. But to borrow a
Buddhist phrase, eventually came a setting face-to-face with pure reality. I
learned that it is not possible for human beings as we know them to live off the
land.
So here is a man who planned for 30 years, and tried for another 10 years to live off the land. He practiced it and worked at it, but in the end he concluded that modern human beings could not do it. I've said many times before, I am not an animal. I have no desire or plan to live out in the wilderness.
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Bugging out has always been on my mind to! We have been prepping for quite some time now but I raised a question just last week. What if Marshal Law is declared and they force you physically to go with the other sheeplike?
I myself have always thought that it would not come to this but seeing how things are going I am really starting to wonder. We have enough staple to sustain us for an extended period of time as well as protection but face the facts, We cannot stop all of them. :o
I am 100% convinced that this will never happen in this country. We are never going to be rounded up and sent off to FEMA death camps... even IF FEMA death camps existed, which they don't.
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To add to Sentry's post.....
If you "think" you could survive in the wilderness, check out the video's on HuLu titled Survival School, and watch the condition that those Air Force SERE specialists get themselves into.
These are the best of the best, fully trained professionals, that nearly starve/freeze to death while going through SERE school......and they have trained instructors and medical providers onsite.....
I certainly don't think I could last long in that environment...btw, they (SERE) students aren't being hunted by Zombies during their training.
Check it out, it was a real eye opener for me....wish I would have gotten some of this kind of training when I was in the military.
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Bugging out doesn't necessarily mean into the wilderness with no prior planning. For a few who have had either years of foresight and/or the money to invest, they have purchased land, built a home/cabin, and then stocked it with all the things you mentioned (food, tools, water retention capabilities, etc.)
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Bugging out doesn't necessarily mean into the wilderness with no prior planning. For a few who have had either years of foresight and/or the money to invest, they have purchased land, built a home/cabin, and then stocked it with all the things you mentioned (food, tools, water retention capabilities, etc.)
You're right, but you sure do hear a lot of people talking about hiding out in the swamps to avoid detection. I just don't see it.
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I would call that Bugging in.....if I had a pre-planned/stocked retreat......semantic, yeah, but Sentry's post (I think) is really referring to those that don't have anyplace to go.
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I agree with what you say. After hearing what the Maryland Governor stated before the hurricane hit and I quote " We will evacuate everyone in the area that will be hit by the hurricane even if we have to use physical force".
I know that this never happened after watching the news and after hearing his statement I asked my wife how a person could even make a statement like that! What ever happened to our Constitutional Rights! ::bt
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I agree with what you say. After hearing what the Maryland Governor stated before the hurricane hit and I quote " We will evacuate everyone in the area that will be hit by the hurricane even if we have to use physical force".
I know that this never happened after watching the news and after hearing his statement I asked my wife how a person could even make a statement like that! What ever happened to our Constitutional Rights! ::bt
Well, there's a difference between saying it and doing it. That was an empty threat he made.
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Not to mention the tools I have accumulated through the years that would help put things back together post PAW. Ok, my husband has a few tools too. :P
I'm not a pessimist BUT and this is me and my research/experience/knowledge and insight (hope I covered all areas there) we will not see the USA/world again as it is now. If anyone survives and the world comes into balance primitive is what I see. Horse and wagon/ not much mechanization, electrical or mechanical petroleum power that is. Tools yes lots of tools and hand tools at that and the ability to use them.
A barter system is a must and this should be set up now as its use will be needed to keep everyone on an even keel. realistic prices/trading, exchanges. Some will be what is called A Meeting of the Minds. Both agree on the terms and the exchange. A pound of rice for a pound of flour. A box of shells for a box of ? a pound of Deer for a basket of veggies. To me this is the hard part...determining a fair trade.
Perhaps a sticky for this is worth the exploring/ideas/suggestions.
I pray for the best and prep for the worst.
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Look, you can live quite comfortably in some very remote areas. I began prepping towards the end of the Carter administration which felt very much like today. I have spent the last five years exploring the most remote an inconspicuous regions of Florida. About a year ago I found the ideal location. It is not completely removed from civilization but is a very low key community of like minded individuals. Being a long time prepper and suspicious to the point of paranoia, I will feel quite comfortable there. Travel 30 miles from the place and most people have never even heard of it. I will be retiring to my survival resort in about 14 months. It is fully stocked and defendable. I go there often for weeks at a time now, making sure everything is in shape and to maintain and upgrade. I have spent enough time assimilating to the neighborhood that I am no longer considered a "suspicious character' and have in fact been invited to join the local militia.Ther are extremes but I think I have found the perfect compromise.
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Not to mention the tools I have accumulated through the years that would help put things back together post PAW. Ok, my husband has a few tools too. :P
I'm not a pessimist BUT and this is me and my research/experience/knowledge and insight (hope I covered all areas there) we will not see the USA/world again as it is now. If anyone survives and the world comes into balance primitive is what I see. Horse and wagon/ not much mechanization, electrical or mechanical petroleum power that is. Tools yes lots of tools and hand tools at that and the ability to use them.
A barter system is a must and this should be set up now as its use will be needed to keep everyone on an even keel. realistic prices/trading, exchanges. Some will be what is called A Meeting of the Minds. Both agree on the terms and the exchange. A pound of rice for a pound of flour. A box of shells for a box of ? a pound of Deer for a basket of veggies. To me this is the hard part...determining a fair trade.
Perhaps a sticky for this is worth the exploring/ideas/suggestions.
I pray for the best and prep for the worst.
The barter system is where precious metals come in. Everyone will know what a pre 1964 U.S silver rdime is wortrh even if it is hundreds of dollars. You then trade the dime for whatever you want and whoever gets the dime in exchange turns around and trades it for something he wants. That has been the function of real money for thousands of years. That way you don't have to spend great amounts of time matching people up that have stuff with people that want stuff.
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Ok living in the woods of Fl is not my idea of fun. Now I do have a place to go, but it is a home on 5 acres. Getting there would be a long haul and I would only do it if I had no other way to survive. It would be risky any with out comms to know if that place is secure or not.
My plan is to stay right where I am for as long as I can. I my stuff is here. I have started putting some stuff in the other place "just in case".
FEMA Death camp will never happen, too many gun and people who are not afraid to use them.
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Ok living in the woods of Fl is not my idea of fun. Now I do have a place to go, but it is a home on 5 acres. Getting there would be a long haul and I would only do it if I had no other way to survive. It would be risky any with out comms to know if that place is secure or not.
My plan is to stay right where I am for as long as I can. I my stuff is here. I have started putting some stuff in the other place "just in case".
FEMA Death camp will never happen, too many gun and people who are not afraid to use them.
Living in the woods of Florida is my idea of fun
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Ok living in the woods of Fl is not my idea of fun. Now I do have a place to go, but it is a home on 5 acres. Getting there would be a long haul and I would only do it if I had no other way to survive. It would be risky any with out comms to know if that place is secure or not.
My plan is to stay right where I am for as long as I can. I my stuff is here. I have started putting some stuff in the other place "just in case".
FEMA Death camp will never happen, too many gun and people who are not afraid to use them.
Living in the woods of Florida is my idea of fun
Mine Tooo :D ::ce
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The barter system is where precious metals come in. Everyone will know what a pre 1964 U.S silver rdime is wortrh even if it is hundreds of dollars. ...
Except it won't be worth hundreds of dollars. It will be worth a dozen eggs. Dollars will be worthless.
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Ok living in the woods of Fl is not my idea of fun. Now I do have a place to go, but it is a home on 5 acres. Getting there would be a long haul and I would only do it if I had no other way to survive. It would be risky any with out comms to know if that place is secure or not.
My plan is to stay right where I am for as long as I can. I my stuff is here. I have started putting some stuff in the other place "just in case".
FEMA Death camp will never happen, too many gun and people who are not afraid to use them.
We are about two hours apart. Room here for more.
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Bugging out doesn't necessarily mean into the wilderness with no prior planning. For a few who have had either years of foresight and/or the money to invest, they have purchased land, built a home/cabin, and then stocked it with all the things you mentioned (food, tools, water retention capabilities, etc.)
This is the point of my question... Those who have not had the money to invest, or the foresight to plan ahead to have a place to go. In other words... You have no BOL, you have no friends place to go....
No Bugging out does not mean that you have to go to the woods... But many think that they will simlply eak and existance within the woods where ever they can find them... I stated thats what "I had led myself to believe 10 years ago..."
In reference to your statement "Bugging out doesn't necessarily mean into the wilderness with no prior planning." Even with planning, that is not the best option without others to help you make it happen, successfully.... People, from what I have noticed and used to think... Still believe they are going to be the EWOK clan of four or one... This will make them superior to the thousands that will come rape what few preps they can eek together.... Sorry your not going to make it living out of your Jansport School back pack packed with WalMart Surival Camping supplies....
I have put my bag together with 65lbs worth of gear, and still cannot make it past 5 day in the woods... I have accidentally packed 100lbs worth of gear, and still dont think I could make it more than 7 days in the woods...
From what I have seen; when Preppers go camping. They pack per trip, per season and per weather conditions. In my mind this is not the way to practice having to survive in primative existance... If the thermometer drops you should have cold weather gear that will keep you warm within reason. If the storms come, you should have a way to keep your ass dry...
I have been on trips where the Temp dropped 44 degrees. From 65 to 21 degrees... I have been on trips where we were not expecting much rain, and it rained all day every day of the trip and got cold to boot... Those who were woafully unprepared for the Cold were suffering and felt it... Just to get one unexpereinced camper out with all of his gear I carried 30lbs of extra gear because he was getting sick...
These things need to be prepared for...
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Im going to my roof.
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What we have right here on this thread is the difference between Preppers and Servivalism. We all need to be thinking out the what If's and become Preppervivalists (TM. The Expendable). Say all of our preps have been taken/lost to fire/flood/what ever or we are forced to leave our preps behind. We do still need to hone our Survival skills and be ready for what ever might happen.
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I plan to bug in.
I still continue to do the best I can to be somewhat ready to leave if I have to. If I have the time and open roads, we go with the motorhome/vehicles. If the roads are blocked and no time, I will leave on foot. I have good packs, tents, etc. I also have a game cart, garden cart and a wheelbarrow if it gets that bad.
What are my chances? It get out and survive with all my family. VERY SLIM. But, I know that going in. Does the family all realize that? Hell no. Should I tell them all this? Probably. But, I won't, till I have to.
Will I give up? Not NO, but HELL NO.
We all need to realize this is not going to be any well planned campout. It will be hell on earth. Most of the population will die. Many of US will die. Our only hope is that we continue to prep, train, learn and get lucky as Hell.
Grim, but realistic.
Kodiak
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K, Kodiak, that's depressing. :(
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Not going anywhere till this camp runs dry, can't be protected and stops producing the vitals to survive...
The last things by the front door will be the BOB's for a not so pretty camping trip.... They will be stocked, untouched and as much as every hand on deck can carry, including the crappy dog...
That's about as simple as it get's for us anymore - we stopped worrying about all the what if's and just focused on the big ones that cover a lot of it...
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bugging out to the woods is a fantasy.
bugging out to a pre stocked location etc isnt.
I get a chuckle out of the many who think they will just walk to the nearest natl. forest and go play red dawn.
Most of those types cant walk 10 miles with any load...let alone in weather like we have now.
I plan to survive...be it here in the comforts of my home....on the road...the trail....river .....
Rj you gotta remember that "bugging out" to no where is everyones plan at one time, it was mine at 17....many people never even gave preparedness a second thought till 3-4 years ago...what you grew out of for lack of better terms long ago , many are just getting to.Its new to them..and what they see as the "only way"
There is no talking them out of thinking that way...either a big does of reality or them getting out and testing their plans is the only means for them to not only physically but mentally move past that phase .
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I plan to bug in.
I still continue to do the best I can to be somewhat ready to leave if I have to. If I have the time and open roads, we go with the motorhome/vehicles. If the roads are blocked and no time, I will leave on foot. I have good packs, tents, etc. I also have a game cart, garden cart and a wheelbarrow if it gets that bad.
What are my chances? It get out and survive with all my family. VERY SLIM. But, I know that going in. Does the family all realize that? Hell no. Should I tell them all this? Probably. But, I won't, till I have to.
Will I give up? Not NO, but HELL NO.
We all need to realize this is not going to be any well planned campout. It will be hell on earth. Most of the population will die. Many of US will die. Our only hope is that we continue to prep, train, learn and get lucky as Hell.
Grim, but realistic.
Kodiak
8) I like! You have what it takes... desire and will.
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Bugging out doesn't necessarily mean into the wilderness with no prior planning. For a few who have had either years of foresight and/or the money to invest, they have purchased land, built a home/cabin, and then stocked it with all the things you mentioned (food, tools, water retention capabilities, etc.)
.... Sorry your not going to make it living out of your Jansport School back pack packed with WalMart Surival Camping supplies....
Crap Sentry, you just took the wind out of my sail!! I love my Jansport bag and Walmart gear. :'(
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Not going anywhere till this camp runs dry, can't be protected and stops producing the vitals to survive...
The last things by the front door will be the BOB's for a not so pretty camping trip.... They will be stocked, untouched and as much as every hand on deck can carry, including the crappy dog...
That's about as simple as it get's for us anymore - we stopped worrying about all the what if's and just focused on the big ones that cover a lot of it...
::di
Everyone here makes some really good points. Surviving in the Florida woods or swamps for any extended period of time will not be fun. Example, every year a bunch of the men from a small town near here has a "father and sons" 3 day camping trip up river the week before Thanksgiving. You can only get there by boat which is 10 miles up river. The rules are: no cell phones except the leader (for emergencies), no radio or ipods, no portable tvs and no video games. And we only have food for the first night which we all pitch in and buy for a group meal. After the first night of eating the group meal, the next three days we can only eat what we kill in the forest or catch out of the river. We put all of the fish, ducks, and squirrels in for the group meals. We didn't starve but we did go hungry at times. We were hot during the day and wet and cold at night. We did have fun, but we knew we could always go home to a warm bed and shower.
So, we plan to "bug in" unless we have to leave for some reason like radiation, bio, or chem attack and may not leave then...just depends on how bad the threat is. We recently sold our home here and sold our home in the N. Georgia mountains (our BOL). We had it stocked for years, but realized we might not make it that far if TSHTF. We're about to start a new home in a secure location on some land that we've owned for awhile. This new home should be done before this time next year. It will be hurricane proof and hopefully somewhat bullet proof. Between hunting, fishing (salt & freshwater is walking distance), gardening, and stored supplies, we will be as prepared as possible. We always hope for the best and we will defend to the end. I don't fear the the government, both feds or local. Also, I agree with EXPENDABLE, I don't see martial law ever happening in this country because there are too many good citizens and patriots who are armed. The fear will be civil unrest or the zombies raiding, raping, and killing during a catastrophe or collapse.
That's not to say that we do not need to prep by practicing and going on camp outs. There may be a scenario where we are traveling and caught away from home WTSHTF.
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I think the point here is being missed....
This isnt prepper -vs- survivalist. Its not Newb -vs- seasoned. Nor is it light weight -vs- heavyweight
Its simply have a plan no matter what....
Just going out into the woods is not a plan. Thats a last resort option because you didnt plan. Heading north is not a plan.
Hell, I still hold the idea that "IF" I did have to leave my house for whatever reason... (It certainly wouldnt be Government coming around for any reason..) If I did have to leave the home for any reason, I would like to head toward the Arizona Desert. Why, cause I think it would be a pretty place to die when I do, and it would be quite a scenic trip... Could I get my family there? Dont know... Currently I dont have a place to go, and I am looking for specific things not to have to deal with in reference to a place to Bug Out to...
Perhaps someday, I will find a place... Im not actually looking at current.
I intend to Bug In and make the best of it with what I have when its time. To Bug Out with two chilren, is madness... To Bug Out with a wife who has not spent any time training, or getting involved in learning what does what and why, is madness... I know most are in the same boat.
Can I leave tools behind? Yes... Can I leave firearms behind? Not just no, but hell no... I cant arm someone who might somehow follow me. But Ill let them have my shovel. Other than that, I have been spending time getting things set to easily bug out, but not have to leave images of memories or family hierlooms... Really I dont have any of those per say...
In reference to the Barter system..... I think goods and services will out way pretty looking things anyday of the week in the shtf..... Metals are for those who expect the Market to come back, and hope to take advantage of it...
Personally, I think those who are purchaseing Gold/ silver right now are going to loose out bug in the near future.... We are not hitting rock bottom just yet... Give it about another 6 years... Golds gonna Drop, and if you want your monies worth... Sell it now, and buy more in preps.
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That's not to say that we do not need to prep by practicing and going on camp outs. There may be a scenario where we are traveling and caught away from home WTSHTF.
I agree, and I hope this is not the message being taken.
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That's not to say that we do not need to prep by practicing and going on camp outs. There may be a scenario where we are traveling and caught away from home WTSHTF.
That is one scenario I have planned for. Reading "One Second After" is what pushed me into prepping. At the time I was convinced that if an EMP struck, all cars built after 1984 would be dead. I prepared "Get Home Bags", backpacks for all the cars in our household, that had enough food, water and gear for three days. I figured if the car got stranded 20 or 25 miles from home, it might take three days to hike back.
Now I don't believe that all cars will be permanently affected by an EMP. It will be something like 10% of all cars. Even so, anything could happen, and the backpacks are still in all our cars.
Back to the topic, bugging out... One of the advantages of the MAG map that Chief pushed for was that we can for localized Mutual Assistance Groups. I think that if there came a time that some of us needed to bug out, we could use those MAG's that we cobbled together to have a place to stop by, even if just for a couple of days. Something to think about.
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i think that in the end willie51 has it right the MAG groups are going to be the primary life line for any family having to leave and stay... i know we are going to stay unless no other solution is available than the decision will have to be made... when that will happen and how that will happen is right now total speculation based on whatever circumstances.. So just having a plan with the family and a MAG group will be very important..
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Back to the topic, bugging out... One of the advantages of the MAG map that Chief pushed for was that we can for localized Mutual Assistance Groups. I think that if there came a time that some of us needed to bug out, we could use those MAG's that we cobbled together to have a place to stop by, even if just for a couple of days. Something to think about.
I have been sitting back and watching this thread, it is a serious topic. EX thanks for bringing up my Mag group again, I think it has been forgotten, Except for 6 and Justa. It is in this Urban survival site, where I tried to explain an Idea that a lot of people where talking about, Mutual Assistance Group. It started strong then someone said to back off and see what would happen, I thought that a good idea... Ya know what happened except for a few not much. It is kinda gone by the way side. Now you have things that ebb and flow, so we will see if that is it. I hope that is the case plus we have some new members, and some do not know about all that was said in the Mag group thread. We will see.
So I got a point. the Mag group was set up so you would network with people and just like this scenario has brought up have a series of groups patched worked thru out the state, that can be like a giant spiderweb of community. Where comms come into play so you can communicate to others if problems arise, and have someplace to go if something happens. The problem is no one is doing that. I mean Say i got a place that I am setting up, trying to get preppeared, and all of a sudden Paw hits. Now I have met you at a couple of M n G, talked to ya on the Forum, and we are friends, or maybe casual friends. You have not helped me though with my retreat, or contributed in any way. Three months in to Paw you show up with four or more mouths that I got to feed. With your Jansport walmart bag, saying "My best of best friend, can you help me". That is not what the Mag group is about. This is not welfare for preppers. It is to work as a community of like minded people. to plain and organize so that in Paw scenario we can have that community, and hopefully reserect something better in Florida then before. So far what I hear know is Welfare for Preppers. We are survivalists or preppers, but we don't act like in in some regards. I will put it bluntly to, Unless you pulling a huge trailer of supplies to help out with and be a participating member of my place. Forget it. I am not the US Govt, I can not afford to take care of everyone. I have tried to get this ball rolling, unless it is picked up by everyone, and played by everyone, then it is dead. Not trying to be mean, but if you are in my spot would you think differently?
Just throwing it out there. Lt me know what you think.
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Chief, you have very valid points and all are true. I still think the idea of a MAG is our best option. In our case I started one here for our area and let the ball drop. That is my fault, but the here and now takes over and some things have to get set aside. With work and school my time is limited to the max (so much for being retired). Plus I have started a little side business and it turned into something bigger than I thought.
I still believe in the idea of the MAG and think it will help all those involved. So I will invest what I can and see where it goes.
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The barter system is where precious metals come in. Everyone will know what a pre 1964 U.S silver rdime is wortrh even if it is hundreds of dollars. ...
Except it won't be worth hundreds of dollars. It will be worth a dozen eggs. Dollars will be worthless.
Another good point Ex.
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Back to the topic, bugging out... One of the advantages of the MAG map that Chief pushed for was that we can for localized Mutual Assistance Groups. I think that if there came a time that some of us needed to bug out, we could use those MAG's that we cobbled together to have a place to stop by, even if just for a couple of days. Something to think about.
I have been sitting back and watching this thread, it is a serious topic. EX thanks for bringing up my Mag group again, I think it has been forgotten, Except for 6 and Justa. It is in this Urban survival site, where I tried to explain an Idea that a lot of people where talking about, Mutual Assistance Group. It started strong then someone said to back off and see what would happen, I thought that a good idea... Ya know what happened except for a few not much. It is kinda gone by the way side. Now you have things that ebb and flow, so we will see if that is it. I hope that is the case plus we have some new members, and some do not know about all that was said in the Mag group thread. We will see.
So I got a point. the Mag group was set up so you would network with people and just like this scenario has brought up have a series of groups patched worked thru out the state, that can be like a giant spiderweb of community. Where comms come into play so you can communicate to others if problems arise, and have someplace to go if something happens. The problem is no one is doing that. I mean Say i got a place that I am setting up, trying to get preppeared, and all of a sudden Paw hits. Now I have met you at a couple of M n G, talked to ya on the Forum, and we are friends, or maybe casual friends. You have not helped me though with my retreat, or contributed in any way. Three months in to Paw you show up with four or more mouths that I got to feed. With your Jansport walmart bag, saying "My best of best friend, can you help me". That is not what the Mag group is about. This is not welfare for preppers. It is to work as a community of like minded people. to plain and organize so that in Paw scenario we can have that community, and hopefully reserect something better in Florida then before. So far what I hear know is Welfare for Preppers. We are survivalists or preppers, but we don't act like in in some regards. I will put it bluntly to, Unless you pulling a huge trailer of supplies to help out with and be a participating member of my place. Forget it. I am not the US Govt, I can not afford to take care of everyone. I have tried to get this ball rolling, unless it is picked up by everyone, and played by everyone, then it is dead. Not trying to be mean, but if you are in my spot would you think differently?
Just throwing it out there. Lt me know what you think.
Chief,not to giggle a tad, but towards the end your post sounds like many of mine when ever the "mag" topic comes up.
People on the web are two things. They either will participate or they will not. You cant force them and you cant change their minds.
Many use the MAG as a reason to have the 1-2 year get together, away from the wife and kid or work. Very few progress past that point of contact/relationship building with those that they have met. Sure, they email or call, or may even meet up once or twice between the campouts/M+G's. BUt VERY very few will put in the effort needed to maintain a BOL or be part of a functioning group or even loosely organized MAG. That takes commitment, and trust. I wont assume what you have etc. But if i had a place, and was wanting to network or get a MAG going i would be proactive. There was a time when i was hosting 2-3 hikes a year, attending 2 yearly campouts in the south east( here and GA) along with going to smaller "coffee" shop meets in order to see what was out there.
This means getting out there. You mave have to drive 2-6 hours, you may have to camp next to someone you dislike, you may have to deal with someone who has a bad attitude because you said chevy's were better than fords.... but unless you get out there and actively try to recruit or make yourself known, who will find you.......who will you find......only those not willing to put the effort into it,besides driving 10 mins or just talking via the net/phone/etc. Ever notice how i post " host one...." when guys bring it up...yet no one does...there is a reason they wont. If they cant take that simple 1st step of trying , why waste the effort on them.
I see it as if i want to have a MAG or bring people into my MAG i had to hunt for them. To make an example like hiring an employee.
Do you want the guy that will show up late, and not work, or the guy who will work? Networking and bringing together a group is no different. You can not go by their creds either either. i have met guys who some would be happy to have due to their training..yet they turned out to be the worse thing for a group. But you dont want to waste time on a person who is nice and the best guy ever,yet he never wants to advance in his skills,preps etc.
If i get back into the MAG game imho people need to have set items already in place. food, water, and protection. They need the means to provide and protect for themselves before reaching out to "provide and protect" for others. It does me no good to have someone on my door step with wife and kid and only 3 weeks of can goods going " hey delta,,shtf here i am ole buddy....lets live happily ever after in the PAW".
Like you said, welfare. Its been brought up here in the past how many new preppers have this entitlement mentality when it comes to things.....while some people may be like minded society has encouraged a mindset of entitlement and many have taken hold to it.
YMMV
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Sorry did not mean to come off pissy. Got called out last night and only on 3 hours of sleep. Goose you are teaching a tactical clinic for free. That is fantastic. also in my shout out I forgot EX, he is doing a wonderful job with all the lists. People we still need to work as a team. the team will only work when all members are working together. I understand you are prepping, and getting your house in order, but then say you lose it to zombies, well in my book ya didn't prep that good, cuz that was a big miss in your prepping if all your stuff is now being enjoyed by zombies, and you are on the run. Then people that are prepping also, and have also thought of this scenario of zombies stealing there stuff, and Have tried to get something like a mag group going thinking ahead, for people in the burbs situation, and what they can do. That person does nothing about it, and shows up at the persin who has, and says sorry you are right, but now I see your point. The problem is Now three months into the Paw is to late.
I know I am blunt, but people if you have not noticed we are in some Crap, I am blunt because that is what gets the point and the urgency across. If that ruffles your feathers, then maybe the Paw will be to hard for you. Again the Paw is a hard time for Hard people. If hard words makes you cry, then the Paw will probably make you die. Just my hard ass 2 cents. Chief
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Bugging in sounds like someone with very few choices. Sit it out in your suburbs. I'll be quite comfortable in the forest.
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Delta I know you have been prepping a long time and I see and Feel your pain...
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I'm with you Sentry.
When I was working on becoming an Eagle Scout, I tried the "live in the woods off the land" for very short durations. It was no fun, and very challenging, and I was alone and in much better shape than I am in now. I too now have a wife and a 4 year old son. I will do anything to keep us alive, and if some strange situation occurred and we had to leave our home, then I will do my best to eat the weeds and such. but I really want to make my home location work out.
I agree with Chief as well (like I usually do). At my job, some people have caught on that I am prepping, and they say they are just coming to my place. I am not winning friends, but I tell them now don't waste the trip, my food is for my family. However, there are a few of you I have met a few times, and knowing what you bring in skill and determination, I would let you in with nothing more than the shirt on your back. Its not welfare, its taking chance on building a solid community. I cant farm, forage, and protect my family alone. sorry, you may have to sleep in the barn if the house is full.
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Delta I know you have been prepping a long time and I see and Feel your pain...
Chief i started networking around 2001. I started hosting hikes 03/04' time frame.
Sentry used to go to the hikes until work got in the way iirc, i had the same issue and dropped from 3 to 4 survival hikes to 2 a year ( summer/fall- or winter/spring). Ive been to camp outs at lake shore long before this forum came around where there wasnt a place to set a tent there was so many people. I didnt stick to a one forum format with my campouts i hosted or went to, bigger pool of people to draw from...
After a while you see who will and who wont do things.....i host the hikes for that reason. anyone can camp out of a car and show off a BOB or some gear. Seeing them put it to work in the field shows me who has used their gear,their minds and their body ( if they are semi physcially fit)....now i do them for fun, to see old friends and enlighten new people how it is a little harder than what they "read" about.
it doesnt take much to post a " hey who all wants to meet at xyz for a day hike..." or if your nervous about meeting like that , you go the bass pro route like yall just did in orlando...i dont care for those (sorry) for the most part. My time off work id rather spend in the woods....or with my family ( your only true MAG imho ) ....
take your time, post up your greets/meets..and roll with it. it takes time....and honestly, if you do have a place...you should be going slow so you dont have an "issue" when someone just shows up one day with their hand out....or trying to get their foot in the door
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The heart of my problem, "Where the Hell are you going to go?" Do I "Bug Out" or "Bug In?" For me, the choice is limited by one factor. Does my car run. At this time, every prep I have can fit easily into my car. If the SHTF and my car runs, I will hightail it down to Winter Haven to help protect my children. I have already mapped out back roads between here and there, and have used one this past weekend, so getting around Orlando will not involve the interstate (unless I have enough warning to beat the crowd). If my car does not run, then I will be staying right where I am until things quiet down so I can make the hike there as safely as possible. I know that it will never be completely safe, but give it a bit of time and things will quiet down.
I have no plans at this time to meet with any MAG as I would just be a detriment to them. I have almost no preps, very limited survival skills, and no one nearby to form a MAG with. It is not that I am opposed to joining a MAG, because I want to do so, it is just that I do not really have anything to add to such a group other than someone to stand watch, and haul and fetch.
FLPrepper
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Chief, will you stop making fun of my Jansport bag and wallymart camping gear? ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
::dk
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The heart of my problem, "Where the Hell are you going to go?" Do I "Bug Out" or "Bug In?" For me, the choice is limited by one factor. Does my car run. At this time, every prep I have can fit easily into my car. If the SHTF and my car runs, I will hightail it down to Winter Haven to help protect my children. I have already mapped out back roads between here and there, and have used one this past weekend, so getting around Orlando will not involve the interstate (unless I have enough warning to beat the crowd). If my car does not run, then I will be staying right where I am until things quiet down so I can make the hike there as safely as possible. I know that it will never be completely safe, but give it a bit of time and things will quiet down.
I have no plans at this time to meet with any MAG as I would just be a detriment to them. I have almost no preps, very limited survival skills, and no one nearby to form a MAG with. It is not that I am opposed to joining a MAG, because I want to do so, it is just that I do not really have anything to add to such a group other than someone to stand watch, and haul and fetch.
FLPrepper
Your point as to why you have no plans to join a mag group is why many folks don't participate. Maybe they lack confidence in themselves to add skills. I think the will to live, get along and be a team player are the first steps. Maybe you have more skills than you realize, you just mentioned 3 above. Also, it does take some time to warm up and be a part of a community.
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The more we interact, the quicker we will become that elusive Mutual Assistance Group. That CAN be our greatest strength. I know. I'm one of the ones who is still an "outsider".
It is hard to trust your safety to a stranger. The sooner we are "not" strangers, the sooner we survive together.
I'm trying.
We should all be trying.
Kodiak
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Willie,
It is not that I am unwilling to participate, I am a member of a non-prepper MAG for 29 years now, as I am always available should someone need help. And it's not that I don't have any skills to offer, as I know that I have several, it is that the skills I do have would not offset my biggest liability, my lack of preps. Any MAG that I would join would have to understand that I do not have food stuffs to "bring to the table." Some of my skills include Army basic training, EMT school, LEO academy, auto repair (but not computer controlled autos), very basic electronics/HAM radio, basic gunsmithing and reloading, carpentry, some plumbing, camping, compass navigation/map reading, and how to take a thriving green plant and kill it in as little as five days (my dad had the green thumb, mine is brown).
As I said, it is not that I will not/do not want to join a Preppervilvalist(TM The Expendable) MAG, it is just that reality tells me that most (I want to say all) would not want the burden of trying to feed someone that only has skills that probably are already present within such a MAG. Honestly, how many of you out there that are currently in a MAG would want someone as described joining your MAG? I am a realist and understand that people live in the real world and cannot afford to be welfare for every lost soul after the SHTF. But hey, if someone wants to prove me wrong, tell my where to sign up!! ;D
FLPrepper
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Willie,
It is not that I am unwilling to participate, I am a member of a non-prepper MAG for 29 years now, as I am always available should someone need help. And it's not that I don't have any skills to offer, as I know that I have several, it is that the skills I do have would not offset my biggest liability, my lack of preps. Any MAG that I would join would have to understand that I do not have food stuffs to "bring to the table." Some of my skills include Army basic training, EMT school, LEO academy, auto repair (but not computer controlled autos), very basic electronics/HAM radio, basic gunsmithing and reloading, carpentry, some plumbing, camping, compass navigation/map reading, and how to take a thriving green plant and kill it in as little as five days (my dad had the green thumb, mine is brown).
As I said, it is not that I will not/do not want to join a Preppervilvalist(TM The Expendable) MAG, it is just that reality tells me that most (I want to say all) would not want the burden of trying to feed someone that only has skills that probably are already present within such a MAG. Honestly, how many of you out there that are currently in a MAG would want someone as described joining your MAG? I am a realist and understand that people live in the real world and cannot afford to be welfare for every lost soul after the SHTF. But hey, if someone wants to prove me wrong, tell my where to sign up!! ;D
FLPrepper
well if food preps is holding you back then why not get some.............
what you need to realize is that it isnt about amounts. It is about putting the effort in . If you have only 5 food buckets when you join up with xyz's MAG..im sure you wouldnt have 5 in a years time still. If you did,,well then that is a problem.
Same can be said for physical fitness, gear, debt..whatever contradicts you(r) and the MAGs end prep goal.
so why no food.... let me throw some excuses out there.....space maybe? funds? no buckets? dont know how? time?
you asked to have someone prove you wrong... ;)
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FP can you save or buy one number 10 can from emergency essentials every pay check, can you buy 1 box of ammo. What I am saying Fl prepper is you got skills and you bring some stuff say to support yourself, Your a hard worker, That is something. I think a person with a eye out for people for a retreat would rather have a hard worker with a lot of skills ,and some supplies, then a guy with a bunch of supplies and lazy as the day is long. Go to emergency essentials, Call up your local Mormons see if you can go can over at one of there canneries, cheap.. Go to the network thread look to see who is in your area. If there is no thread make one. need more preps maybe get second job. I am not telling ya what to do, just offering suggestions.
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3 1/2 gallon buckets are free from the Publix Bakery if you are real nice they even wash the icing out of them and run them through the washer first.
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Willie,
It is not that I am unwilling to participate, I am a member of a non-prepper MAG for 29 years now, as I am always available should someone need help. And it's not that I don't have any skills to offer, as I know that I have several, it is that the skills I do have would not offset my biggest liability, my lack of preps. Any MAG that I would join would have to understand that I do not have food stuffs to "bring to the table." Some of my skills include Army basic training, EMT school, LEO academy, auto repair (but not computer controlled autos), very basic electronics/HAM radio, basic gunsmithing and reloading, carpentry, some plumbing, camping, compass navigation/map reading, and how to take a thriving green plant and kill it in as little as five days (my dad had the green thumb, mine is brown).
As I said, it is not that I will not/do not want to join a Preppervilvalist(TM The Expendable) MAG, it is just that reality tells me that most (I want to say all) would not want the burden of trying to feed someone that only has skills that probably are already present within such a MAG. Honestly, how many of you out there that are currently in a MAG would want someone as described joining your MAG? I am a realist and understand that people live in the real world and cannot afford to be welfare for every lost soul after the SHTF. But hey, if someone wants to prove me wrong, tell my where to sign up!! ;D
FLPrepper
Along with the quoted post above, you previously posted you could stand watch, fetch and carry...all valuable skills in a PAW.
Based on your posts in this thread, you do have a lot to offer to a MAG. The biggest challenges I foresee for us in the PAW, is a lack of personnel/manpower to stand watch, fetch and carry. Not to mention the "basic" yet useful skills you mentioned above.
And yes, guys with your basic skill sets (even without specializations) would be welcome in our MAG (provided you passed the screening process).
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Florida Prepper i am new to this to. I am only a couple years into this. I was just a hick in the woods, until the light bulb went off. ::bb
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Chief, will you stop making fun of my Jansport bag and wallymart camping gear? ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
::dk
Don't laugh, but those are what I used to make the "get home packs" that I put in the kids' cars.
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FLPrepper, I don't consider myself a newbie preppervivalist (©2009, theexpendable.com), but compared to many on this forum I am. In fact, I am a newbie compared to some who have been doing this less time than I have!
I'm supposed to be getting together with onestep in the next couple of weeks, as soon as we can synchronize our schedules. There may be a couple other people there. You're not that far from us. We're both in Seminole County. Why don't you plan on trying to join us?
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In December I had probably four months of food stuffs for four people saved up. But then my ex-wife asked me to leave since she found someone else. I left all the preps for her any our two children as I wanted to do the best for them. After I left, she lost her job and they lived off of the preps, which is what preps are for, right? I have been giving her most of my paycheck to make sure our children are being taken care of, so I haven't been able to buy as much as I want to for myself. I currently have built up about two-three weeks of canned goods and rice, beans, and pasta, but that is about it. Fortunately, my ex starts a new job with the state tomorrow, so when she starts getting her paychecks, I will be able to start buying long-term food stuffs. She now understands the reality that can cause a need for preps, and she is planning to start saving herself. Does anyone in the Winter Haven area know of places to buy stuff cheap?
I know I sounded like an idiot before, the ex might say sounds are not deceiving ^-^ , but this subject has the habit of making me really worry about my kids when the SHTF. I am sure some of you can understand this feeling.
I do appreciate everyone's advice, and I will keep plugging along until I can't plug anymore.
FLPrepper
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Thanks Expendable, I would like that. I have to work 9/10, but can make just about any other time.
I am planning to be at the M&G in October, as I already have the time off starting that Friday.
FPrepper
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In December I had probably four months of food stuffs for four people saved up. But then my ex-wife asked me to leave since she found someone else. I left all the preps for her any our two children as I wanted to do the best for them. After I left, she lost her job and they lived off of the preps, which is what preps are for, right? I have been giving her most of my paycheck to make sure our children are being taken care of, so I haven't been able to buy as much as I want to for myself. I currently have built up about two-three weeks of canned goods and rice, beans, and pasta, but that is about it. Fortunately, my ex starts a new job with the state tomorrow, so when she starts getting her paychecks, I will be able to start buying long-term food stuffs. She now understands the reality that can cause a need for preps, and she is planning to start saving herself. Does anyone in the Winter Haven area know of places to buy stuff cheap?
I know I sounded like an idiot before, the ex might say sounds are not deceiving ^-^ , but this subject has the habit of making me really worry about my kids when the SHTF. I am sure some of you can understand this feeling.
I do appreciate everyone's advice, and I will keep plugging along until I can't plug anymore.
FLPrepper
Do you plan to be at the MeetUp in ONF October? If so The wife and maybe another will teach how to use Coupons at the stores. We usually save at least 50% of the total food/ supplies purchased. Also, check out the Mormon/LDS church in Orlando. You may be able to purchase dry bulk canned food there. Very very good prices.
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FLPrepper . . . you make the point very well about why it is important to plan ahead!! If they never told you, thank you for planning on behalf of your family. Whether it's a national crisis or a personal crisis, having food and the means to make it through can make all the difference.
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This thread has gotten WAY off topic... And I believe is headed towards discussions which would be better taken or kept in the Netoworking forum (for OPSEC's sake)
None the less.... FLPrepper
Dude there is no need to go into the #10 can stuff to start... THere is no need to get all extravegent in your preps...
#1 is food..
#2 is water
Have those you can survive...
#3 if interested in a group/ MAG or what ever you want to call it... Get involved with a couple of people you think you like, show up for stuff... If people see you are trying, they will take you under their wing. Should something happen and you have to Bug Out to thier location, they will take you in...
I have always said, show up at my door with next to nothing because you couldnt bother to try. I will not let you in... Show up at my door with what you were able to do... Ill take you in...
Kodiak,
You are not an outsider.. I dont know where you got that Idea... You have shown up... Your getting started...
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I think you can read the posts of members of this forum and get a pretty good idea of who is making an effort. I mean, sure, you could fall for some BS too, but generally you can tell who is making the effort. And like others have said, I feel that attitude counts for a lot. I know it would count a lot with me. I'd personally rather team up with someone who is less prepped but has a good attitude and is trying their best, than someone who has a huge stockpile but a bad attitude.
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Chief, will you stop making fun of my Jansport bag and wallymart camping gear? ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
::dk
Don't laugh, but those are what I used to make the "get home packs" that I put in the kids' cars.
I'm having some fun, but not laughing too much. I still use them for the same thing. Just gave another on to my son in West Palm Beach for his fiance'.
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Chief, will you stop making fun of my Jansport bag and wallymart camping gear? ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
::dk
Don't laugh, but those are what I used to make the "get home packs" that I put in the kids' cars.
I'm having some fun, but not laughing too much. I still use them for the same thing. Just gave another on to my son in West Palm Beach for his fiance'.
Hey, they do what they are supposed to do, but for a cheap price. When you have four or five cars to equip, I'm all about saving money. You can still make it home, you just don't look as... umm, what is that word that delta uses... Oh yeah, "tacticool".
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Chief, will you stop making fun of my Jansport bag and wallymart camping gear? ^-^ ^-^ ^-^
::dk
Don't laugh, but those are what I used to make the "get home packs" that I put in the kids' cars.
I'm having some fun, but not laughing too much. I still use them for the same thing. Just gave another on to my son in West Palm Beach for his fiance'.
Hey, they do what they are supposed to do, but for a cheap price. When you have four or five cars to equip, I'm all about saving money. You can still make it home, you just don't look as... umm, what is that word that delta uses... Oh yeah, "tacticool".
my spare truck kit is in a ubertacticool all ninja black jansport pack.. :P.....my med alice wont fit under the rear seats and i aint leaving my good ruck(s) in there LOL...its a back up anyway as i carry my GHB in and out of the truck as i go. The kit is there for whoever is driving at the time (wife,me,passengers etc).
why drop extra $$ into some POS lapg or condor ruck to just sit in the truck, when that $ canbe put into other prep items,.
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Well shit fire and save the matches! Y'all have gotten me to thinking again! (that can be mighty scary folks) :o
Thankfully, I am the type that isn't afraid to change my mind and admit I could have been wrong about something. I came on here to learn, and I sure haven't been disappointed. (thanks y'all)
My first thoughts were to bug in where we are. My Tinkerman has been wanting to build a BOV from day one. My thoughts were WHERE THE HELL ARE WE GONNA GO? We don't know anyone that is any better off than we are. (location)
Next thought, well maybe we can meet people on here that we could work with. Again though, location. How do we get to them?
We are getting ready to meet a couple of people on here. Unfortunately, we are so far apart, we most likely won't be able to help each other when SHTF. But the friendship will be priceless.
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Well shit fire and save the matches! Y'all have gotten me to thinking again! (that can be mighty scary folks) :o
Thankfully, I am the type that isn't afraid to change my mind and admit I could have been wrong about something. I came on here to learn, and I sure haven't been disappointed. (thanks y'all)
My first thoughts were to bug in where we are. My Tinkerman has been wanting to build a BOV from day one. My thoughts were WHERE THE HELL ARE WE GONNA GO? We don't know anyone that is any better off than we are. (location)
Next thought, well maybe we can meet people on here that we could work with. Again though, location. How do we get to them?
We are getting ready to meet a couple of people on here. Unfortunately, we are so far apart, we most likely won't be able to help each other when SHTF. But the friendship will be priceless.
I know, off topic, but thanks for finally changing your avatar! Now we can tell you apart from your Kitty Katt friend! ;D
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It was getting to me too. I kept saying to myself, "Self I don't remember posing that!"
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Willie,
It is not that I am unwilling to participate, I am a member of a non-prepper MAG for 29 years now, as I am always available should someone need help. And it's not that I don't have any skills to offer, as I know that I have several, it is that the skills I do have would not offset my biggest liability, my lack of preps. Any MAG that I would join would have to understand that I do not have food stuffs to "bring to the table." Some of my skills include Army basic training, EMT school, LEO academy, auto repair (but not computer controlled autos), very basic electronics/HAM radio, basic gunsmithing and reloading, carpentry, some plumbing, camping, compass navigation/map reading, and how to take a thriving green plant and kill it in as little as five days (my dad had the green thumb, mine is brown).
How about being part of my MAG? I consider the ability to be another set of eyes so I can get some sleep to be an asset. Your in place skillsets (carpentry, ham radio (I am also a ham), EMT...all of these skills could be utilized in a group). Can't stay awake 24/7.
As I said, it is not that I will not/do not want to join a Preppervilvalist(TM The Expendable) MAG, it is just that reality tells me that most (I want to say all) would not want the burden of trying to feed someone that only has skills that probably are already present within such a MAG. Honestly, how many of you out there that are currently in a MAG would want someone as described joining your MAG? I am a realist and understand that people live in the real world and cannot afford to be welfare for every lost soul after the SHTF. But hey, if someone wants to prove me wrong, tell my where to sign up!! ;D
FLPrepper
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If. You can drop money into cars....guns....gear....etc. you can store food.
Its that simple. Skills don't mean Jack....they help but honestly id rather have someone who is willing to try vs not no matter thirty skill level. Your a navy seal recon ninja ranger wow cool but if you wont take the responsibility to store food for you and yours or do work with in the group your useless.
Not aimed at anyone...just think about it.
Oh and I've already bugged out any you non prepared types try and camp out in my al ill sling poop at ya like an angry monkey ....
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Skills don't mean Jack....they help but honestly id rather have someone who is willing to try vs not no matter thirty skill level. Your a navy seal recon ninja ranger wow cool but if you wont take the responsibility to store food for you and yours or do work with in the group your useless.
I understand your point. And I agree that part of committing to being prepared includes gathering and storing what you can. But I would rather have a farmer, who knows how to clean a hog, mend a fence etc, than that navy recon ninja who owns 35 rifles and 200 MRE's but doesn't know how to dig up a tater. At least my farmer is USED to the hard work that comes with living off the land.
That's why my slogan is "skills beat stuff" I don't mean specifically those ninja sniper skills that most folks brag about. I mean it isn't enough for you to buy your way to being prepared with me. Put the hard work in and prepare YOURSELF too.
After all, if you do get separated from all your stashed goodies, the only thing you will have left will be your knowledge.
Not arguing, but clarifying what I believe.
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Intriguing, comments.
I wish to stay "here" BuT if I must I will aim to go on a recovery mission, (get someone I know close by, or grab something quickly) or if it comes to it regress to a family members home. It may be almost a 15min ride or 30-40 min hike. My place is "good" an I hope I am able to hold out here .... if I need to regroup there's enough areas to do so here an in the area..and I wouldn't want to but im sure I would be welcome back to Ohio at a few places.
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Im on that page of the book right now. Basically deciding on whether or not to stay in Florida. I can get a job in my current field pretty much anywhere but i don't know where id want to go yet. However where i do end up will essentially be my "BOL". The hunt continues... any suggestions?
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I might have a contact very high up in Tennessee..... if that helps.
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Totally open to suggestions.
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Skills don't mean Jack....they help but honestly id rather have someone who is willing to try vs not no matter thirty skill level. Your a navy seal recon ninja ranger wow cool but if you wont take the responsibility to store food for you and yours or do work with in the group your useless.
I understand your point. And I agree that part of committing to being prepared includes gathering and storing what you can. But I would rather have a farmer, who knows how to clean a hog, mend a fence etc, than that navy recon ninja who owns 35 rifles and 200 MRE's but doesn't know how to dig up a tater. At least my farmer is USED to the hard work that comes with living off the land.
That's why my slogan is "skills beat stuff" I don't mean specifically those ninja sniper skills that most folks brag about. I mean it isn't enough for you to buy your way to being prepared with me. Put the hard work in and prepare YOURSELF too.
After all, if you do get separated from all your stashed goodies, the only thing you will have left will be your knowledge.
Not arguing, but clarifying what I believe.
No...my point got screwed up...typing on my phone LOL.
I'm on the same page as you. But all the skill in the world doesn't trump laziness or in ability to work with in a group. Reason I brought up the super navy sea bee recon ranger example. Folks look at "skill " base before seeing how the person is. "Oh hey Tony we gotta get Timmy in our group he was a marine..." with no after thought of how ole Timmy will act in a group setting or if he really is preparing.
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Totally agree. Timmy might also have been a shipping clerk in the marines. Not knocking ANY serviceman. Just saying that the label "marine" (or any other designation) doesn't automatically mean hard worker/ combat skilled sniper-ninja/ prepper/ non-@sshole.
And even if he IS all of the good stuff, he STILL might be a bad fit for your particular group. Good discussion point.
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Totally agree. Timmy might also have been a shipping clerk in the marines. Not knocking ANY serviceman. Just saying that the label "marine" (or any other designation) doesn't automatically mean hard worker/ combat skilled sniper-ninja/ prepper/ non-@sshole.
And even if he IS all of the good stuff, he STILL might be a bad fit for your particular group. Good discussion point.
Agreed.
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Totally agree. Timmy might also have been a shipping clerk in the marines. Not knocking ANY serviceman. Just saying that the label "marine" (or any other designation) doesn't automatically mean hard worker/ combat skilled sniper-ninja/ prepper/ non-@sshole.
And even if he IS all of the good stuff, he STILL might be a bad fit for your particular group. Good discussion point.
ive had this happen in a group setting.
it really goes to hell fast. its not something youd want to see post/during an event.
honestly if the scenario i went through happened in the paw there prolly would have been a few holes to be dug ;)
vetting people takes time and setting them in different environments..how they act around timmy may not be the same around john..
small quirks you can live with but blatant malicious intent and piss poor people skills really are gas to a fire.
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where would i go??????? well the wife and i have always considered staying put right here in suburbia south E Florida... but, BUT recently we've been discussing moving back to NC in a few years... Charlotte to be exact... i can transfer there straight across in my classification so its something we are considering.. but for now were are here..
also i do i have to agree here attitude is everything in a paw getting and keeping people motivated to keep on keeping is critical.... and if you or a person has a good attitude about what they are doing and how they are doing it than it just makes things easier...
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I will probably fortify on the homefront and exercise the friends and family plan, always with an eye to evicting those who pick fights or sit on their ass when the work detail comes up.
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I will probably fortify on the homefront and exercise the friends and family plan, always with an eye to evicting those who pick fights or sit on their ass when the work detail comes up.
so three weeks into shtf wet dream johnny s wife refuses to help bake bread or do laundry by hand,,she misses her AM faggotmochachino from shitbucks and watching dancing with the stars..johnny slacks off cuz he thinks hes being bossed around by you because you keep saying " this is my land/home etc".
so how well do you think this "eviction" is going to go...what do you think johnny will do once "voted out of the colony.."
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I will probably fortify on the homefront and exercise the friends and family plan, always with an eye to evicting those who pick fights or sit on their ass when the work detail comes up.
so three weeks into shtf wet dream johnny s wife refuses to help bake bread or do laundry by hand,,she misses her AM faggotmochachino from shitbucks and watching dancing with the stars..johnny slacks off cuz he thinks hes being bossed around by you because you keep saying " this is my land/home etc".
so how well do you think this "eviction" is going to go...what do you think johnny will do once "voted out of the colony.."
3 weeks into TSHTF i dont think wet dream johnny's wife or johnny will be around to make that kind of a fuss... they would have succumbed to... wait for the fedcoats rescue eyetis.... 3 weeks into a full blow SHTF the majority of the sheep would be weeded out and the ones that either learned fast or got lucky would be the only ones around... it doesn't take long for contaminated water to take effect let alone lack of food as you know... BUT its not to say that even at this point somebody that you even knew before TSHTF that was in your neighborhood who made it and was half way preppared or even a full blown prepper wouldn't act as you said.. large amounts of stress does wonders to even normal people who think they can handle it.... the dynamics of people trying to survive in a group situation would in most normal circumstances conform to the new norm but people would still have off days but if a person continues like you said the only way i see the eviction would work would be a group eviction/escort... still doesn't mean their wont be consequences, your group would have to be very vigilant after an event like that... Im sure issues will arise within the group from people who thought the decision/vote wasnt fair for whatever reason so those issues will also have to be handled
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I know this is easier said than done, but, They have a choice. Pack there stuff and head out or, a 22 to the head. Family is the problem. Take them on a supply run. They don't come back. My smart axe grandsons are in this category.
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Well now wife and I may disagree. But if we get through 3weeks. I hope things can go as planned. An many people we know are well an alive.
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All this talk about Bugging Out.Makes no sense to me unless you are wealthy enough to buy and stock two homes.We have worked all our lives to buy and maintain our home.This is where we live and this is where we will stay.It is not in my nature to pack and run and you got no place to go.Because you can't run from yourself,look back and their you are.For us its stand our ground and fight for what is ours.Don't know any other way.
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I am in Melbourne - a pretty heavily urbanized area. In case of a WROL scenario, staying and fighting here isn't practical.
But I don't own another piece of land to bug out to. However, a friend does and he wants my family to join up with him there in a bug - out scenario. Our own little mutual assistance group.
Additionally, there are various remote areas on public lands that could be utilized. If you can't afford another property, invest in a vehicle that can go off-road to reach less accessible areas. Maybe bury some caches up there on a dry run.
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I am in Melbourne - a pretty heavily urbanized area. In case of a WROL scenario, staying and fighting here isn't practical.
But I don't own another piece of land to bug out to. However, a friend does and he wants my family to join up with him there in a bug - out scenario. Our own little mutual assistance group.
Additionally, there are various remote areas on public lands that could be utilized. If you can't afford another property, invest in a vehicle that can go off-road to reach less accessible areas. Maybe bury some caches up there on a dry run.
West of 95, bring a boat.
The MAG is the best bet.
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Burying caches is a wise idea... Just where is the problem....
I would think it be best to have a cache somewhere, where you would see it at least every month... That way you could see if construction or roads are being constructed in its path...
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organizing a MAG in your neighborhood is a good medium term solution.. currently it would be a hard thing to do because of the sheeple so i suggest planting the seed with trusted neighbors and watch it grow.. you will have to be the one with the organizational skills to put together the group/neighbors after a collapse.. look around your neighborhood for 1st responders, current or ex military personal, nurses and the such... than put a plan together in you head.. now that being said this scenario is based on skills only not personality or character and any FTF time.... if you are able to get to know your neighbors if you already don't than do even on just a courjal basis because its a start... the object is to build a colony that is dependant on each other... easy on paper more effort required in real life, but something to think about...